I recall it referred to an 18 page booklet? It would be strange to want to abbreviate an already brief work?
Different format, different type size or just one edition?
Half banana
JoinedPosts by Half banana
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Research Question
by vienne inwe need this to further our research... .
the booklet russell, rutherford and "the harp of god" : the heresies of the international bible students association published by the british bible union and written by c. leopold clarke.
we can't find it in any american library.
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Anyone else get a message from Hanged Man?
by pale.emperor ini dont know why i'd want to argue over something like this.
i've been aware of this theory for years.
as interesting as it is - it's still bullshit.. for future reference, i believe the bible to be a collection of fantasy, myth, real locations and crazy ramblings of psychedelic bloke stuck on patmos.. my reply:.
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Half banana
@ waton
"female fireworms come up from the bottom of the sea to spawn at precisely 55 minutes after sunset on the third night after the full moon."
Astonishingly good time measurement by anyone's standards-- but from a 4 centimeter worm!!
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Anyone else get a message from Hanged Man?
by pale.emperor ini dont know why i'd want to argue over something like this.
i've been aware of this theory for years.
as interesting as it is - it's still bullshit.. for future reference, i believe the bible to be a collection of fantasy, myth, real locations and crazy ramblings of psychedelic bloke stuck on patmos.. my reply:.
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Half banana
The key point is that the origins of the Bible do not represent astrology, the Bible is not astrological.
Astrology came from a divination of the night sky. Astronomy and astrology use the Zodiac (a word drawn from Greek referring to a circle of little animals) but that does not make astronomy false or astrology true. It was in the same way that Tarot was an ordinary card game which by the eighteenth century, superstitious people began to take it to have mystical predictive qualities. Humans are like this!
The Bible stories parallel many of the myths and legends but not astrology! which were developed as mnemonics (memory pegs) to fix in mind the succession of the twelve constellations of the zodiac and the stars in relation to them.
During the long Stone Age era of mankind and afterwards, people needed the Zodiac-- it was their map and compass, their calendar and their bible.
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Anyone else get a message from Hanged Man?
by pale.emperor ini dont know why i'd want to argue over something like this.
i've been aware of this theory for years.
as interesting as it is - it's still bullshit.. for future reference, i believe the bible to be a collection of fantasy, myth, real locations and crazy ramblings of psychedelic bloke stuck on patmos.. my reply:.
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Half banana
Don't jump to premature conclusions without learning the evidence. Remember that religious belief has always evolved but it has to originate somewhere, where then did it come from?
It came not from astrology or horoscopes but the stories, myths or legends if you like, about the constellations, stars and movements of the heavenly bodies as symbolic of the activities of heavenly heroes. The places where the sun rose and set on key days of the year were the markers for festival days, symbolic of the rebirth of the sun in mid-winter, and the sacrificed sun god going to his father at the spring equinox, these being among the main events of the pagan solar year--as they still are in religious circles today, namely Christmas and Easter.
Before the Bible existed in the fourth century, there was another 'Bible'-- people looked to the stars, sun, moon and constellations for insight and wisdom. It was alas, no more reliable than the Bible for prophecy!
The links with the occult and 'paganism' were condemned by the Roman Church especially in the fifth century and under penalty of death for infringements.This disguised the fact that the source of their religious power was actually drawn from folk tales and the Catholic religion held itself to be sophisticated and superior to the idle stories of mere rustics.This blanket condemnation and the enforced destruction of virtually all pagan documentation was successful in concealing the origins of Christianity but it did not negate the fact that there are tangible links of Bible text with the folk stories of the constellations stars Sun Moon and planets, not just coincidental patterns or similarities.
Here's the rub, we humans are pattern spotters, that's what gives us the edge over all other living things on the planet. But we should approach evidence in the spirit of the courts of law. If we spot patterns because we want to pursue a private hunch it is usual that we see the patterns we want to. It's called confirmation bias. If though we are scientific about it we will weigh the evidence dispassionately and see the pattern or links for what they are. In the end all assessment of truth is by the force of evidence for a thing on one hand outweighing the facts on the other hand. Knowing from JW experience that "new truths" are something of a con, it is from the history of ideas and the knowledge of universal myths and folklore which should inform our investigations on this particular subject, not the knee jerk response to say that "astrology is wrong".
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Anyone else get a message from Hanged Man?
by pale.emperor ini dont know why i'd want to argue over something like this.
i've been aware of this theory for years.
as interesting as it is - it's still bullshit.. for future reference, i believe the bible to be a collection of fantasy, myth, real locations and crazy ramblings of psychedelic bloke stuck on patmos.. my reply:.
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Half banana
Fred the surprising thing is that there was not even a settlement at the place that was later called Nazareth. Obviously it did exist at the time when the manuscripts of the Bible texts were last edited.
The archaeology of the area shows that there had been a cemetery there, not a good choice for habitation --although at some time before the first century there had been one farmhouse nearby but that is all. Josephus, that scrupulous recorder of everything Jewish, lived within a half hour's walk of the place not long after the supposed time of Jesus' residence but he never mentions it (neither does he mention Jesus) and nor do any contemporary Roman maps show a village called Nazareth. Since Judea was under Roman rule they would have needed to mark and assess the taxable value of every village if not every house.
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Research Question
by vienne inwe need this to further our research... .
the booklet russell, rutherford and "the harp of god" : the heresies of the international bible students association published by the british bible union and written by c. leopold clarke.
we can't find it in any american library.
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Half banana
Have you tried this Australian source called Trove? The booklet appears to be available online at https://trove.nla.gov.au/version/209271138
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The Hailstone Message :2018 Assembly
by jwdoctrine inthe following is the talk of the assembly followed by my 15 minutes commentary.i have included part of my notes below which i used for the commentary .
what is the hailstone message?.
is it literal or symbolic?.
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Half banana
You write as if you believe the Bible to be meaningful. . . it isn't.
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Arguments I’ve Had: Historical Accuracy and the Bible
by Saethydd inwhen i was a jw and still living with my parents i remember the way my father held what could almost be described as contempt for archeologists, paleontologists, and other scientists who dared to try explain what happened in past.
he justified this attidtude with the argument that these people don’t have enough evidence to make such claims with any certainty.
however, i see now that his viewpoint was more likely a defense mechanism to protect his presupposed conclusion that everything described in the bible actually happened.
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Half banana
Yes Redvip, the governing body's conceit is that God is guiding them so to hell with hard won information and facts, the enormous collective evidence discovered by scientists over many generations through experiment, exhaustive testing, measurement, debate, counter argument and analysis-- the ignorant narcissists at JW HQ dismiss it all with a wave of the hand and a smug self righteous smile. Education is from the devil!
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Anyone else get a message from Hanged Man?
by pale.emperor ini dont know why i'd want to argue over something like this.
i've been aware of this theory for years.
as interesting as it is - it's still bullshit.. for future reference, i believe the bible to be a collection of fantasy, myth, real locations and crazy ramblings of psychedelic bloke stuck on patmos.. my reply:.
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Half banana
Fred you are guessing about some of these matters, Jesus could not have been born in Nazareth since it only began as a place about a century after he died. The Bible makes a linguistic conflation of the word nazarite (Jewish mad monk syndrome) and Nazareth (place founded after Jesus died).
Pale I think you should think again, there is nothing wrong with the word Zodiac. It has suffered from a contamination with astrology but it only describes the zone 9 degrees either side of the plane of the ecliptic (the belt within the cosmos in which the solar system travels and marked by 12 constellations each year). Predictive astrology is foolish but if you want to get to know the stars you absolutely need to know where they are at different times of the night and where they are in the sky in relation to the constellations of the Zodiac each month of the year. Stories about the stars, perhaps even sung communally, were a great way to remember a vast amount of information, learned by repetition, by rote, before the time that writing was invented.
There are a lot of stars! All 'primitve' peoples know thousands of them by name, even today--why? Because the stars were the abode of the gods and stories about the stars were the mnemonics told from time immemorial from parents to their children to be able to connect one star with another and recognise the constellations and to what end? Importantly to navigate the deserts and seas but also the heavenly events were the tribe's calendar which determined the times for annual rituals and later on after 7000 BCE; the heavens became the farmer's almanac.
Think of the Twelve Labours of Hercules, a story for each month. . .
Genesis 3;15 is a great example of how a star story got adopted and hijacked by having it put in writing and then fixed into the Bible canon. What the churches and Watchtower consider the pivotal and profound prophecy is actually a description of how to remember a bunch of stars near the Pole star. Hercules' club is about to smash the head of the serpent while the snake is about to bite his heel.
So the churches condemned astrology-- why should they have done? It is because the folk tales of the Bible are actually at source "star stories" woven into a historical sounding narrative. It is paganism made holy but don't tell anyone!
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Interesting new findings on evolution...
by Bad_Wolf ini link the article below.
in summary it claims that analyzing dna code from over 100,000 species found that 90%of all species including humans came about at the same time 100,000 to 200,000 years ago, and another "and yet—another unexpected finding from the study—species have very clear genetic boundaries, and there's nothing much in between.".
read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-survey-reveals-facets-evolution.html#jcphttps://phys.org/news/2018-05-gene-survey-reveals-facets-evolution.html.
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Half banana
Speaking as both part lettuce and half banana, I would like to add that the background to evolution in the northern and southern temperate zones is influenced by two important factors; cyclic climate change and specie extinctions.
During the past 2,6 million years there have been on average a recurring cycle of about 100,000 years repeating typically this succession of climates: very cool for most of say 50,000 years punctuated with an arctic "or "glacial" episode followed by very cool and then warming up to the mild "interglacial" which we have been experiencing for the last 10,000 years. This may last another ten thousand, maybe more maybe less. These cyclic episodes alter the ecology of the various geographical regions and habitats and put stress especially on the ability of mammalian inhabitants to keep the same populations breeding.
It came as a surprise to me to learn that during the last cool episode leading up to and including the last glacial, that in North America were lost something like 75% of all large mammals. For example mammoth, mastodon, glyptodon (giant armadillo) giant beaver and six of the seven species of bison, camelops, big cats and short faced bears. The extinctions allow for new species to evolve by the vacant ecological niches available to be exploited. There is a rule that the larger the mammal the fewer the generations they survive. Squirrels have been around for about twenty million years but woolly mammoths only from 250,000 years ago to 4,000. Extinctions can be sudden but speciation (arrival of new species) is only apparent over geological time.
Incidentally, doing palaeontology and archaeology were things I put on hold when I became a JW as a young teenager. So it was with great pleasure after leaving the cult, that I joined a university group and helped dig up many mammoths (Mammuthus primigenius) as well as a few straight tusked elephant (Palaeoloxodon antiquus) here in Oxfordshire, England.